an atheist (im guessing hes an atheist) said the following in regards to God:
He also created sin, go figure?
and so i responded:
its like saying that by having light you created darkness.. or by having heat you create cold
sin is the disobedience of God, darkness the absence of light, cold the absence of heat.. same as how cold and darkness do not "exist" they are just the description of the absence of somethingbr />
in giving the first command God created the potential for its disobedience, but He couldnt disobey Himself, only a separate entity with the freedom of choice could do so.
a mormon quotes psalms 82:6 as "Ye age gods; and all of you are children of the Most High." and states that we are gods (when we repent etc.. ie, when we are sons of God, we are gods) and below my response:
[...] when the old testament talks about gods, the hebrew word doesnt mean as in "divine" gods (since it makes it very clear there is only one God), its actually a word that is correctly translated as "judges", this is the word "elohim" which is plural and can be either "gods" or one of the titles of God.. the singular for "god" is "El" which is also another of God's titles. the word itself actually means, as you may already know as well "the mighty ones". also, if you read the whole of psalm 82 you will realize that He most definitely is NOT talking about christians, even though we are God's sons (but not gods ourselves, as this would be impossible, and contradictory to the bible.)
and below is all of psalm 82 (NIV), for your convenience:
1 God presides in the great assembly;
he gives judgment among the "gods":
2 "How long will you [a] defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?
Selah
3 Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
5 "They know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 "I said, 'You are "gods";
you are all sons of the Most High.'
7 But you will die like mere men;
you will fall like every other ruler."
8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.
so now you know, in case they ever try to use that verse on you to convince you we are "gods"
my answer to the question "why wont God heal amputees?"
why should He?
why, if we have spent our whole lives spitting in His face, offending Him in every possible way, disobeying His law, not caring to spend a second with Him, not caring to do a single thing that pleases Him, after He gave His own Son for us, after He did it all for us so we can spend eternity in His presence, why, oh WHY should He give us our arm back? why? will this make eternity any better, to have an arm for a few more years here on earth?
and my response to some atheists answer that began so:
Imagine you had a friend (a real, physical one). He had the power to fix a problem of yours.
It would cost him nothing to do so.
It is not illegal or in any way immoral for him to do so.
He has the time to do so.
He has promised to do so repeatedly.
You hear constant stories from people for whom he has done so.
You have been a loyal friend for years, giving up much of your life for him.
[...]
my response:
"imagine you have a friend".. this makes your whole argument break down right from the get go. WE ARE NOT GOD's FRIENDS! by sinning, we have declared ourselves to be His enemies, and we have ALL sinned. no exceptions. why dont you understand that already?? you think that making a mockery of God, makes you friends? thats you, but if we talk about amputees.. what makes you think they are somehow deserving of God suspending the laws of physics, biology and cause and effect so that, what, you can have your arm back? so that what, you can now sin and offend Him with BOTH your hands?? a true christian knows that God is under no debt or duty to us for anything.. everything He does is complete undeserved grace for us.. and a few years here on earth is nothing compared to eternity. while we are unrepentant of our sins, we are just enemies to God. and when we have been truly redeemed, forgiven and restored, you know how petty a request this is
He has NOT promised to heal amputees.. anywhere
honestly, atheists live in such lala land as to who God is.. and can you blame them? look at our idiot satanist "preachers" we have out there, teaching prosperity, and such idiotic satanist nonsense!!
*texan accent" "if you truly believe that God is gonn' heal yer amputated arm.. then jus' have faith, and He will!!"
holey geeze.. talk about anti-christ! why do these "pastors" preach this crap?? dont they realize that without repentence, their millions of followers are all just lining up to go straight to hell??? do they not CARE?? so what if you are healthy and rich and have all your limbs for the 40 years you are given here on earth if you will spend all of eternity in HELL??
gosh!
repent and be saved!! there is only salvation in Christ, who is the only one capable of removing your sin!! there IS NO OTHER WAY!!!!!!!!!!!
“Never tell a young person that anything cannot be done. God may have been waiting centuries for someone ignorant enough of the impossible to do that very thing.”
i thought of this formula during my philosophy class tutorial... i think its pretty accurate:
knowledge + politics = science
have you noticed that too? in theory knowledge should equal science, but the fact of the matter is that so much politics (as in "do we accept this as true? all who agree say 'aye'" kind of craziness..) is involved that i would say its actually (variably) half of science.. especially these days of evolution and old earth doctrine. and all the rest of the nuttiness.. seriously. cant it just be knowledge? can we keep theories where they belong? in the theory basket.. and just say "these are the facts.. some say its this, some say its that. the end" it bothers me that people are so ignorant to say "evolution has been proven. its fact!" ugh.. its so ridiculous! there is no proof, no evidence, no nothing!! so how can we conclude that?? the answer is we cant. see? politics.. alllll politics..
oh wow, behold the most ignorant statement i have heard yet:
Question posted: I believe in a God, do you?
one person's answer: Sure I believe in God, why else would anything exist? actual atheist comment in response: Everything else would exist because of science.
and no, im not kidding, an atheist actually responded that.. hoooeeee.. science is powerful! i didnt know science created everything! see, ya learn somethin' every day..
Color Dreams' claim to fame was that they were the first company to get around the Nintendo lockout chip and produce unauthorized NES games. However, Nintendo started successfully putting pressure on retailers not to carry these games. Also, the games weren't very good.
Looking for an alternate market, the company stumbled upon a genius plan: they'd reskin their games to make them "Christian", and sell them in Christian bookstores instead of videogame stores or normal retailers. Since Christian bookstores didn't sell other videogames, they weren't too vulnerable to pressure from Nintendo, especially since none of the official Nintendo games were Christian-themed (and therefore Nintendo was probably in league with the devil). This simultaneously solved the "games weren't very good" problem, because since nobody else made Christian-themed videogames yet, they had no competition, and religious parents buying these games for their children probably weren't going to quibble over the quality of gameplay anyway.
[...]
Nearly twenty years later and they've got basically the same business plan. Wish match-three games were a bit more religious than just matching some colored blocks? You can play Walls of Jericho, where you need to match colored blocks that happen to constitute the Walls of Jericho, and do it quickly before your followers leave you! By the time you get to an adventure game named Jesus in Space, where you proselytize to aliens and robots in space and on Planet Whammo, you start to wonder if the company is actually trying to figure out just how ridiculous they can make their games and still sell.
and yes, i have played some of their games.. haha, though not "Jesus in space"
besides the formal logical proof i generally give atheists in regards to the existence of God, i think im closing in on the deal maker.. the part that one should focus on to seal the deal, so to speak. ie, the one that just cant be refuted, and that will put the focus right smack dab to the main point, which is Jesus.. heres a conversation with an atheist i am having so far:
atheist: ...and that is where we run in to strife. YOU say 'He', with absolutely no evidence. Some others say 'She' with equal conviction of belief. Others say 'It' and still others say 'Them'.
Zoroastrians, buddhists, muslims, hindus will all say, with equal conviction of belief, that their god(s) are THE ones, and their holy book is the only one that stands up to the tests of holiness. YOU will say "But they're all wrong. Their stuff makes no sense." They will say "No, you are wrong. Your stuff makes no sense...".
You cannot all be right - but you can all be wrong. Without some kind of evidence besides "I believe it with all my heart", NONE of you have any weight or authority behind your statements of who or what "god" is - or even if there is one (or many).
insaner: its not "absolutely no evidence" if you were to tell me you are a guy, i would take your word for it, i dont need "evidence".. the "evidence" is in you telling me.. heck, you would know it best. so when God, in the bible, is referred to as "He", then why would i go and say "She" or "It"??? thats senseless. they can say she or whatever, but they have their own basis to say so.. or not. some just want to be arrogant feminists and declare God to be a "she" which is just dumb. by the way, in hebrew the male is also the neuter grammatical gender. in many languages this is the case, not necessarily meaning that God is male.. though i dont see why that should be a problem in the first place.
i can make only one claim in regards to God's identity, and that is from the bible. and wherever other faiths/religions contradict that, then we have an issue. the way i know the bible is true, is in for example fulfilled prophecies, supernatural events that could not have just been "chance".. including especially the existence of the jews. i think the fact that jews still exist today testifies greatly to the existence of God the bible. and in just the life of Jesus here on earth more than 360 prophecies from the old testament were fulfilled, of which more than 190 could ONLY have been fulfilled by Jesus. this to me says the old testament is true, and hence the new testament is true. and then putting it to the real test.. in my own life.. THAT is how i remove any further doubt i could have. the changes ive seen in my life, in my own person, stuff completely outside of my control for example, all that just cements the deal flat.
other religions can claim life changing qualities, id say they all can. but they cant all claim the fulfillment of prophesy in the way even a single person did in the NT.
BOOM! God exists and the bible is true, the focus is on prophecy! of course! the bible proves itself, and not in a circular logic kinda way, but rather in a history fulfills it kinda way.. niiiiice.. proceed!
a good point by willy the jay (aka guiyyi) in regards to the post on september 14 at 3:35am
Actually [insaner], I think this needs further clarifications on your behalf. I do agree with the original quote, and the verses; no need further explain that. But as far as the disobedient Christians, they do listen, but choose not to obey. And so, if they listen God is their father. Just because a Christian disobeys does not mean he stops being God’s child. (i.e. prodigal son)
i think this is a good point though its a bit wrong due to a matter of nuance only. i think the nuance is in the phrase "choose not to obey". while i do agree with the point willy the jay is making, i disagree completely on saying that a true christian can "choose" to disobey God.. since this is what we call "practicing sin" (as opposed to "committing sin", which everyone does, including christians, and this is mainly the stuff we cannot help doing, but are working hard to stop).
the reason i wholeheartedly disagree is that as christians, while we do still sin, despite "listening" to God (His Word, those He appointed to serve Him by correcting us.. etc) it is still hard to stop sinning, BUT, as a christian, by definition you must choose to do, as hard as it may be, and whether you actually accomplish what you have chosen to do. in other words, its the choosing that is important, not so much the success of our decision.
thats how we define repentance, "the decision to turn away from your sins and towards God".. and so, when you repent, even if you are 5seconds away from dying, its still enough.. despite you not having time to allow that decision to bear fruit. repentance has nothing to do with regret, or "feeling bad" and everything to do with making the decision to turn away from our sin.
willy's point about "Just because a Christian disobeys does not mean he stops being God’s child. (i.e. prodigal son)" is good, in that we dont stop being God's children (if we are indeed such) just because we are unable to obey, (as a matter of fact, we cant in any way stop being a son of God if we indeed are one.. it is however possible to be deceived into thinking you are when you actually arent) but it is upto us to make the decision and commit to it.
a few supporting verses:
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
1 john 4:8
This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome
1 john 5:3
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him.
1 john 5:18
and of course, the original verse:
He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
john 8:47
but this one here is the clincher:
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 john 2:3-6
that last one should be the one to remove all doubt.
so, while i do agree with what i think is willy's point in that hearing and obeying is not the same.. the distinction must be made that we MUST choose to obey, whether we can of our own strength follow through well on that or not, to be called christians, sons of God.
our salvation hinges on our repentance, not our holiness.. but it is due to our salvation that we will arduously struggle for our holiness.
i like this quote i just read here while looking something up about balaam:
"if God were your father... you would listen."
which is taken from John 8:42 and 47
"Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
[...]
47: He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.' "
John 8:42 and 8:47
it sort of just narrows it up in regards to the fake "christians" we have out there.. as well as the disobedient ones.. if God was your father, you would listen.
i dont think this needs any further comment on my behalf.
dont forget, venezuela and bolivia are buddy buddies, and venezuela is very anti-US.. as russia is now led by a former KGB agent (ie, putin, who even after leaving post as president, is still pretty much running things through the new puppet president he basically put there himself) and is turning more and more anti-west.. yeah, so can you smell what i smell?
ah man, i think i shouldve included at least a bit of what johnathan knight was saying in his blog that made me like that quote so much:
There are a million and one people who claim that they want to make a difference. Frankly, I am tired of hearing it, especially from those who are not serious. The phrase "I want to change the world" is the boldest of claims and yet has been reduced to a pathetic cliche these days. When folks decide they want to make a change, their first instinct is usually to start a petition, organize a fundraiser, write a letter etc.
[...]
The reason is because action requires sacrifice.
[...]
So many leaders wonder why their organizations and movements are going nowhere and why no one wants to give their life to their cause.
I have the answer! Leaders who don't bleed can't lead.
Look at history.
Millions followed Gandhi not because he was a lawyer. They followed him because the man refused to eat until violence in India had ceased.
Millions followed King not because he was a doctor. They followed him because some rednecks decided to blow up his house and he still kept going.
Billions have followed Jesus (though sometimes really poorly) not because he was Rabbi but because he prayed for his enemies while hanging like a piece of meat on a Roman cross.
If you are someone who wants to change the world, you need to make your mission personal and sacrificial. If you want to alleviate poverty, stop wearing clothes that were made in sweatshops, like Nike or the Gap. If you want to war against oppression, stop wasting your University education and share it with some low income youth who can't read.
this is personally inspiring to me. so many times i get discouraged because "nobody backs me up" in the things i would like to do.. good things. but like john is saying here, if i dont bleed for this stuff, why should anyone follow? instead of whining so much about it, i should just go out and do it. later, people might follow. but i shouldnt do it so that people follow, i should do it because i should do it!!!!!
is there anything you know you should do? what are the excuses that are stopping you from doing it?
go check out his blog. this guy really has an awesome testimony, and more than that, he has an awesome ministry to follow that testimony.. please please check it out.
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